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Author Topic: Ys COMPLETE Bonus Items and Events  (Read 9408 times)

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Offline rocket

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« Last Edit: Mar. 04, 2009, 09:23:41 AM by rocket »
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Ys I & II COMPLETE Bonus Item and Event Website

https://www.ysutopia.net/projects/yscomplete/bonus/

Offline X-Calibar

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Re: Ys COMPLETE Bonus Items and Events
« Reply #1 on: Mar. 24, 2009, 01:43:06 AM »
Great bonus site !  I should probably save it for future reference :o

Other mini-bonus event/dialogs that I don't see mentioned for Ys I Complete...
You can use the Red Potion on injured people!  If you stand right next to them...
This comes in handy for Raba and Luta when they are hurt... I saved my potions just for them.
There is no real bonus unfortantely (besides a warm fuzzy feeling)... but I remember Luta says he feels a little bit better.  Not sure if Raba thanks you as well.

But, I always use my potions on them lol 
Too bad data isn't transfered over from Ys I to Ys II for events like that :O
(oh and I imagine you could probably use it to heal Feena if you are trying to do the Mirror leveling up thing...)

Offline TDOMMX

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Re: Ys COMPLETE Bonus Items and Events
« Reply #2 on: Mar. 27, 2009, 10:41:12 PM »
Hmmm...  I didn't know that you could heal wounded NPCs; I only knew about healing Talf in Ys II.  I'll have to check this out later.

Unfortunately, many of the easter eggs from Ys Eternal no longer work in Legacy of Ys:
 - The mirror no longer has any effect on humans in Ys I.
 - All of the animals in the two games (save Pickards, Roos and enemies) have been removed.  No ducks, goats, or even housepets (even though one of the characters directly mentions where to find the ducks...).
 - The Bestiary Potion no longer exists (it's replaced by a Roda Leaf Herb in Ys I, and the wall around the chest in Ys II cannot be destroyed).
 - You can no longer lift countertops and thus can no longer piss off whoever is in Flair Fleah's clinic when you do so.  There are no apples on the counter to send flying, either.
 - Humans are now immune / apathetic to fire damage (which is odd considering one of them notes that it's not nice to use magic on other people).
 - The pigeon loft no longer exists (the stairway is replaced by a pair of wooden crates...).
 - You can no longer feel up little boys in dark caverns find out Talf's measurements (though you can still do so for Feena).
 - You cannot teach Talf to not throw rocks at the Roos (he will still react to your transforming in front of him, but he'll continue tossing pebbles whenever he sees a Roo other than Ado-Roo).
 - You can no longer sleep in Lilia's, Zalem's, or Maria's bed.
 - Nash and Rimr will not complain if you return their bonus foods to them -- they'll just give you another as if you had given them something else.
 - All of the hidden scenes are enabled at the start of a new game, regardless of difficulty setting.  No need to clear the game to see them all.

I'm inclined to list other things as being removed, but I can't confirm if they're disabled or if I just messed up in finding them:
 - Leveling up Feena
 - Feena's comments when she loses sight of Adol around corners
 - Getting Guido to pay double for Iron Ore
 - The mosquito pillars
 - Rhea Lair Reah whistles / winks

Everything else that is listed on the bonus page has been retained (yay!).  If you can confirm if the last six events are in the game and I just screwed up on one of the criteria, I'd appreciate knowing if I did something wrong.

Edit:  Aww, nuts.  You can't heal Luther or Rabah Labah in Legacy of Ys...
« Last Edit: Mar. 31, 2009, 03:04:26 AM by TDOMMX »
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Offline X-Calibar

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Re: Ys COMPLETE Bonus Items and Events
« Reply #3 on: Apr. 03, 2009, 12:00:05 AM »
Ah, yeah I don't have a DS or PSP yet so I haven't seen any of these Falcom games besides Ys VI for PS2.

Too bad they took those extras out!
I wonder if Ys Chronicles will have them returned...?

Offline SkyeWelse

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Re: Ys COMPLETE Bonus Items and Events
« Reply #4 on: Apr. 03, 2009, 11:17:56 PM »
That's a great site! I never knew that there were that many extras and hidden easter eggs in the first two Ys games. Makes me wonder if other games in the series have a few hidden ones as well!

And yes, the DS version of Ys I & II took a lot of hidden easter eggs out, but some are still there such as the ability to kill all of the monsters in the basement in Lance village, collecting an extra chest of gold after fighting Velagunder in a hidden room, and the ability to give/feed items to certain NPCs such as Lilia and Tarf.

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Offline TDOMMX

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Re: Ys COMPLETE Bonus Items and Events
« Reply #5 on: Apr. 05, 2009, 04:12:12 PM »
Actually, you can give items to anyone in Ys II except for enemies and Roos.  The DS version still keeps track of your "degree of impression", but it doesn't seem like it's possible to reduce this score.  You can't light people on fire, and if you do something mean like return Zalem's pie to her, the NPC in question will forget about the incident the moment the conversation is over.  I made a point of giving every character 5-6 items so that I could see how Atlus translated each of these.  Honestly, the NPCs are really well characterized, but the rest of the package leaves a lot to be desired.

I won't harp on about the graphics since everyone knows that they suck.  I'm not convinced that Atlus did a thorough job playtesting the game.  I stumbled across a couple of bugs - some excusable, others, not so much.  For instance, the menu for deciding whether to give an item to an NPC or simply talk to them:  many of the items you can give don't fit in the window, so the beginning and end of the item name are truncated.  I chanced upon an untranslated string when I snuck into the meeting room in Solomon Temple, and I somehow managed to circumvent a map transition in the underground canal.

On that note, there are really too many map transitions in the game.  Lance Village takes two maps, not one;  the field outside takes three; Noltia Ridge loads a new map every other time you pass a set of stairs; and the underground canal treats the catwalks and the canals themselves as two separate areas.  Couple that with shoddy collision detection and you suddenly find that the door to Duless acts just like a solid brick wall, all because you managed to "avoid" the transition on the stairs.
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Offline NightWolve

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Re: Ys COMPLETE Bonus Items and Events
« Reply #6 on: Apr. 05, 2009, 07:54:25 PM »
That's a very thorough analysis, TDOMMX... Well, as I don't have a DS I'll never get to play it and I'd say that's for the best... I'd be too pissed/aggravated while playing and running into names like Salmon, Lance Village, Talf, Duless, Reah, etc. I dunno why they didn't examine Ys Book I&II and pay respect to what is arguably the best localization (with few exceptions Colin/Dogi) especially considering the game is being reintroduced to new audiences with the Wii.


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Offline TDOMMX

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Re: Ys COMPLETE Bonus Items and Events
« Reply #7 on: Apr. 06, 2009, 06:06:58 AM »
Personally, I wouldn't let nostalgia cloud my judgement about the names; I'd rather consider them on a case-by-case basis.  Ironically, most of the names Atlus used are verbatim as they were given by Falcom themselves (hence why I don't automatically trust official romanizations -- I've harped on too many times about the use of "Teletha Testarossa" when it should be obvious the name is "Theresa").  That's among the reasons why I'm correcting the mistakes I come across in my current translation project.  Incidentally, Atlus can't quite decide if Lance's watchman is Rasen or Larsen...

Tangentially, am I the only one who realizes that the playboy king's brother in Final Fantasy VI is supposed to be "Matthew Rene Figaro"?

As for not owning a DS, I'd suggest using an emulator like No$GBA for try-before-you-buy situations.  On the other hand, it's not really that good of an alternative since you can't change the resolution and are stuck using squinty Eye-Strain-O-Vision (a cookie for whoever gets the reference).  Still, I'm glad I used that option instead of wasting money on importing Ys Strategy (pre-emptively:  no, I didn't finish the game, and I likely never will)...

By the way, the Preview Post option on the forums doesn't seem to be working.  The box above the Post Reply form says "Fetching preview...", but never manages to actually load it...
« Last Edit: Apr. 06, 2009, 06:10:43 AM by TDOMMX »
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Offline NightWolve

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Re: Ys COMPLETE Bonus Items and Events
« Reply #8 on: Apr. 06, 2009, 06:55:14 AM »
Personally, I wouldn't let nostalgia cloud my judgement about the names; I'd rather consider them on a case-by-case basis.  Ironically, most of the names Atlus used are verbatim as they were given by Falcom themselves (hence why I don't automatically trust official romanizations -- I've harped on too many times about the use of "Teletha Testarossa" when it should be obvious the name is "Theresa").

Well, it's not just nostalgia, Hudson's localization was simply the best and that is how many in the US were introduced to the Ys series (myself obviously), so why continue to create so many inconsistencies with EACH AND EVERY localization that comes thereafter? It's pretty ridiculous and I wonder if there are other comparable examples of this to such a degree.

Hudson was right about most things I'd say while Atlus definitely fails on the "r" and "l" issue from what I've seen (should be Rance, Tarf, etc). I think most romanizations were proper, liberties aside like "Colin" instead of "Dogi," though for Ys III they returned to the latter. With "Reah" I guess they were going for "Leah" which almost reminds of Princess Leia (Star Wars), so "Lair" is definitely a bit of a liberty on Hudson's part, but it works and the flip to "l" is right at least. Granted, the actual meaning of the word (as in "a monster's lair") is a strike against it.

You know, this reminds me of the shitty decision I made with Psycho DeuceBag's OK a while back in the choice of "Romn" for the "Ys IV:Dawn of Ys" patch instead of "Romun" because that was what Falcom's Engrish machine translations produced for all Ys VI related material (the manuals, the images, artwork, etc.). So, we thought, well, we know it sucks, but let's be consistent (and since I was working on the Ys VI PC patch at the time, I wouldn't have to change the images with "Romn" so laziness played a role as well)... Then wouldn't you know, Konami's PS2 port gets released which properly went with "Romun," so I was like, "Ah dammit, you can't win with this shit..." So, I changed it back to "Romun," but who knows when we'll work on it again and release a new version to get that usage into circulation... Until that time, Ys IV patch users are treated to "Romn," heh. (Your Ys IV prepatched image BTW has said update, so you won't be seeing "Romn" should you play it.)

Anyway, it seemed to me that's what Atlus did also: they honored the Engrish found in Falcom related material for the game, with some exceptions like "Dalk Fukt", etc. Then I had a conversation with Mp83 who got a response from the project leader himself that verified this:

Quote
"...We generally referenced the Nihon Falcom supported transliterations. Some of them we had to alter for various reasons, such as as Dalk Fukt. We understand that these transliterations may differ from previous North American releases, but we feel that we should stay true to the original developer's prefered versions."

Which is complete crap... Falcom just runs their original Japanese through a machine translator to produce the crap Engrish that they do, no? So why would you "stay true to the original developer's preferred versions" if that is the reality? Why do that when you had an exceptional localization to reference that introduced the series? Bad move and strikes me as lazy.

Update: Mejilan tells me though the script work is actually pretty good and they deserve points for that.


Tangent:

Here's something interesting with their Ys Release History in the manual:

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6776/ysjapanesereleasehistor.jpg

Anybody notice what's missing from that??

.

.

.

.

.

[spoiler]Felghana, hello? Now how, HOW DO YOU OMIT WHAT IS, I DUNNO, ONLY THE BEST YS GAME IN THE WHOLE WIDE HISTORY OF YS!!?!?? WHAT WERE THEY THINKING ?!?!?!? Quite the glaring oversight right there...[/spoiler]


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Offline Gillian Seed

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Re: Ys COMPLETE Bonus Items and Events
« Reply #9 on: Apr. 07, 2009, 10:51:25 AM »
I loved this page. I especially liked the concept of "degree of impression" used in Ys 2.
It'll probably be useful when Ys 1-2 Chronicles will be out too.
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Offline TDOMMX

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Re: Ys COMPLETE Bonus Items and Events
« Reply #10 on: Apr. 07, 2009, 03:51:49 PM »
Hmmm...  To an extent, I agree with you -- it's tempting to stick with what you grew up with.  I still think Ilvern is a more suitable name than Illburns, even without considering its meaning (or perhaps because of it).  On the other hand, I much prefer Valestein to Ballacetine despite Ys III's undebunkable status as the first game I ever owned and loved.

If I were to localize the game myself, I'd use either "Rhea" or "Leah" instead of Lair / Reah, nostalgia be damned.  I'd lean toward the former since that actually looks like a real, exotic name compared to the others (and parallels Feena by ending with an 'a').  It also gets the original pronunciation right.  On another note, I see I'm not the only one who thought of Princess Leia when seeing her name (though I think I saw Star Wars after I first played Ys I...).

To be honest, I prefer Lance Village to Rance, though I'd stick with the latter if I wanted to pay homage to the original dub.  "Galvaran" sounds cooler for a villain than "Galbalan", if you ask me (though there's the cross-reference with Demi-Galba to consider as well).  Like I said before, I'd consider each name on a case-by case basis if I were in charge (and, if I thought my choices would cause heads to roll, I'd include an option to use the fan-preferred names as well, kind of like what a few fansubbers do thanks to Matroska containers).

I think MP83 got in touch with the project leader through Atlus' message boards.  He was pretty vocal in their forums since news of the official localization first hit.  I lurked around there near the beginning, but didn't stick around for very long (I'm sure I'm not the only one who facepalmed after reading the line: "This press release is brought to you by the letter 'Y' and the numbers '1' and '2'")...

I agree with your argument about their localization decisions; if an high-quality localization exists, I'd definitely use it as a reference and only change things where I was sure I could improve upon the original.  I'm hesitant to call the project head lazy as much as I think s/he was oblivious (more on that later...).

Wait a sec... didn't I already tell you that the script fleshed out the characters in Ys II pretty well?  The script for Ys I was passable, but Ys II's pretty much ensured that I spoke to every NPC at least three times every time I triggered a new plot flag (yep, my game timer is over 20 hours as a result - I'm glad I spend so much time on the bus in cases like these).

Yeah, I see what's missing.  Damn them for forgetting my favorite version of my favorite Ys game.  DAMN YOU!  Damn you, and such...  Ys Origin made it onto the release history, but not Felghana?  What the hell...  I don't see any consistency in that timeline.  They didn't include Ys Strategy or Ys Online, but we can't really blame them for forgetting those...  They didn't even bother noting which games never received a US release (Nintendo is better in this regard...).  I'd bet they checked the front page of Falcom's site and didn't do much more digging than that.  Okay, I'll take back my earlier comment; they were pretty lazy.  At least they put their effort into polishing the script, if nothing else.
« Last Edit: Apr. 07, 2009, 03:57:17 PM by TDOMMX »
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Offline NightWolve

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Re: Ys COMPLETE Bonus Items and Events
« Reply #11 on: Apr. 07, 2009, 08:58:32 PM »
Wait a sec... didn't I already tell you that the script fleshed out the characters in Ys II pretty well?  The script for Ys I was passable, but Ys II's pretty much ensured that I spoke to every NPC at least three times every time I triggered a new plot flag (yep, my game timer is over 20 hours as a result - I'm glad I spend so much time on the bus in cases like these).

Probably, just my memory. Mejilan's comments came the other day over email so they were fresh in my mind. They were good enough to paste:

Quote
I always like your's and Psycho DeuceBag's versions because it basically took the best (to my eyes and ears) romanizations and married them to an overall localization that was quite professional and consistently thorough.  That said, Atlus' localization of the DS iterations of I and II are, perhaps, even more readable.  They did butcher some names though, and that's definitely a black mark.  But there are plenty of really nice examples of incredibly solid phrasing.  This is not a critique of the work you and Psycho DeuceBag did, so much as an example of how much Atlus has improved in the past decade.  I mean, compare it to their rubbish work on the original Persona (PSOne) or Tactics Ogre (also PSOne).

Lots of the key story sequences are conveyed with excellent syntax and turns of phrases.  Also, I'm a pretty big fan of their "Veil of Storms" around Esteria.  I believe you two used "Storm Barrier," which certainly gets the point across, but lacks a certain... nuance or eloquence that "Veil of Storms" enjoys.  But yes, for every great example in the Atlus localization, there's a not-so-great example ("Salmon"), and all in all, you and Psycho DeuceBag produced a localization that, in my mind, scores only very slightly lower in the sheer readability factor, but scores quite a bit higher in the overall quality and consistency factors.  And you guys did it with a barebones team (of two, I believe?) and no support from the developers (unlike Atlus), and years and years earlier.  No comparison, really.  Regarding Psycho DeuceBag vs Atlus, I'll give Atlus the nod for having slightly higher highs, but much lower lows, whereas you two get the MUCH better overall average.

It was interesting he brought up the term Atlus used for the "storm" issue. It turns out Psycho DeuceBag and I had quite a debate about that... Machine translations and even Shimarisu (ex-translator of Ys projects) came up with "Storm Barrier" and for whatever reason, that actually always sounded better to me. Now when Psycho DeuceBag completely took over the script translation and he gave the work back to me, he used "Stormwall" which I didn't like. So I brought it up with him and debated it quite a bit. He was pretty adamant that would be the best, but somehow, it just didn't sit right with me... Anyway, so "Storm Barrier" was restored thanks to my veto. ;)

Well, I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on which you'd prefer best.

1) Storm Barrier
2) Stormwall
3) Veil of Storms

? ? ?

I personally wouldn't have thought of "Veil of Storms," but I think it's alright now that I've been presented with it.

By the way, the Preview Post option on the forums doesn't seem to be working.  The box above the Post Reply form says "Fetching preview...", but never manages to actually load it...

Yeah, been trying to figure that out for some time now and success came moments ago! Hey, this is better than VBulletin which reloads the whole page for a preview.


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Offline TDOMMX

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Re: Ys COMPLETE Bonus Items and Events
« Reply #12 on: Apr. 23, 2009, 01:25:05 PM »
Probably, just my memory. Mejilan's comments came the other day over email so they were fresh in my mind. They were good enough to paste:
No offense taken.  One of my pet peeves is having something I just finished saying go completely ignored.  Since Mejilan's comments were more recent and better fleshed-out, I can let this slide.

On the other hand, I was rather miffed when I went to meet an online friend in Toronto last year (our first face-to-face meeting).  I repeatedly mentioned before the fact that it was my first time in the area (via email, and yes, he replied to each of them), yet he had the nerve to tell me when we met that he would have planned something had he known it was my first time in Toronto (!!!).  Instead, we hung out at his place (and he was pretty quiet for the most part) before going to grab some grub at an overpriced French restaurant.  Considering Videogames Live was in town and his penchant for conventions, that could have been a much more eventful day.

For the record, I live just south of Montreal and was in Ontario for three days / three nights for my cousin's wedding.  I was a little disappointed that I would finally get the opportunity to meet someone I had worked with on several translation projects, yet didn't receive anywhere near the same level of esteem (he introduced me to his group's co-founder via telephone as "that guy from the Internet").

Well, I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on which you'd prefer best.

1) Storm Barrier
2) Stormwall
3) Veil of Storms
I'm pretty fond of "Veil of Storms", actually.  I would have thought of "shroud" instead, but "veil" seems much more fitting if you ask me.  I like the subtext in either case - that it effectively hides Esteria from the rest of the world (and vice versa).

Yeah, been trying to figure that out for some time now and success came moments ago! Hey, this is better than VBulletin which reloads the whole page for a preview.
Heheh!  It works again!  Now, I don't have to rush to edit my posts because of formatting slip-ups anymore.
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Offline NightWolve

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Re: Ys COMPLETE Bonus Items and Events
« Reply #13 on: Apr. 23, 2009, 07:48:06 PM »
No offense taken.  One of my pet peeves is having something I just finished saying go completely ignored.  Since Mejilan's comments were more recent and better fleshed-out, I can let this slide.

Ummmmm, OK? I'll make a very special effort in the future just for you! ;)


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Offline TDOMMX

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Re: Ys COMPLETE Bonus Items and Events
« Reply #14 on: Apr. 25, 2009, 07:40:10 PM »
Ummmmm, OK? I'll make a very special effort in the future just for you! ;)
Hahahah.  I appreciate the thought.  You don't really need to go out of your way since you've done so much already.  But thank you.  8)

To expound a little, you have no idea how many times I've told my mother, "I just finished saying that!"  I'll readily admit that she's not the most attentive, but I really can't stand when people I know are intelligent do the same.  This kind of slip-up tells me one of three things:
1) You're an airhead
2) You're distracted by something
3) You really couldn't care less what I have to say, but won't actually be honest about it

I take offense only when I know for sure that #1 and #2 don't apply.  I don't think I need to explain why.
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Re: Ys COMPLETE Bonus Items and Events
« Reply #15 on: May. 01, 2009, 07:59:47 AM »
After reading TDOMMX's points in Ys DS, I would have to agree that there is indeed way too many map transitions. And some of them are put in places that lead to complete and utter dead ends. Perhaps it is just where they draw the county line on the map, but it does get annoying sometimes especially in the Ice Ridge of Noltia and Lamia village when you have to wait for the screen to load the next map only to find that the only new discovery is that you're now at a dead end. Then you have load the previous map again, just to continue back to what you were doing before.

I don't know, general rule of thumb I guess. If you have to make a player wait twice within 10 seconds of gameplay, you are doing something wrong as a game designer. The worst candidate of this I've ever seen is in Sonic the Hedgehog for the Xbox 360. Anyone who has ever played that will know exactly what I'm talking about.

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Re: Ys COMPLETE Bonus Items and Events
« Reply #16 on: May. 06, 2009, 06:04:44 PM »
I'm inclined to list other things as being removed, but I can't confirm if they're disabled or if I just messed up in finding them:
 - Leveling up Feena
 - Feena's comments when she loses sight of Adol around corners
 - Getting Guido to pay double for Iron Ore
 - The mosquito pillars
 - Rhea Lair Reah whistles / winks
The first two are still present. I have yet to check the latter 3, for I have yet to play Ys II DS.