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Last Shout - Posted by: Bernie - Sep. 09, 2020, 04:40:16 PM
WTF is up NW?!!!! ;D

Author Topic: An indefinite delay with the Felghana patch.  (Read 4987 times)

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Offline NightWolve

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An indefinite delay with the Felghana patch.
« on: Feb. 10, 2007, 04:57:11 PM »
Alright, I thought I'd provide an update since things aren't going as fast as I was hoping. Due to a recent development, I've had to make several changes to the Felghana patch unfortunately. This has cost me some development time and prevented me from getting to the final bit of work needed. Suffice to say, I think I'm getting close to wrapping up the last minute changes I had to add, before I finally get to the ReadMe.

My plans for the rollout of this patch are basically this: Once the final candidate patch is ready, officially version 1.00, I'm gonna email it off to my donators & assistants in a descending order of my choosing (top donators to bottom). There's a reason for that, which I'll explain after it goes public. Also, a 12 day countdown will be initialized here. Once that 12 day countdown is over, the patch will be added to the download engine here and will be made available for everyone on the YsF translation project page.

So that's the gist of it. I had always wanted to do some kind of "grand" countdown thingy and this Felghana project, my most ambitious and bold one yet since I entered the fan translation scene in late 2001, provided the opportunity to do so. Little did I realize it would be somewhat undercut the way it was, but I'll deal with that later.

OK, now what's the purpose of that really you might ask? Well, it was actually a compromise position I took. I was caught in the middle of deciding whether or not I wanted to go shareware with this patch. Very late in December, I was very tempted to end all the freebies I have been giving out for all these years, and go shareware to recover some of the financial losses that I have incurred doing this. Add to the fact that when I honestly looked at the Felghana patch I had created, in all my amazement and astonishment of it, it felt utterly stupid to just hand it out for free. It is that valuable and professional - which you'll agree with when it goes public... I guess it actually has to be explained that making a patch like this or others like it in the past is NOT free nor easy. Warez butt pirates may think so, but that's actually not the case. Somebody pays for it, and guess what, it's mostly me through my labor which is worth a lot more to an employer than it is for this. (In my case specifically, there's a laundry list of irresponsible decision after irresponsible decision to even being doing this, but I'll spare the details.) It's not just my labor of course that I rely on, but that which is donated by other interested parties.

DeuceBag, essentially donates a translated script for me. In the past, when translators were hard to come by, I had considered hiring someone for that, but I never had to as he and a few others before him came along. Hacking work: either it's me or I have to rely on someone for it. I once offered Neill Corlett a $250 flat fee to help me finish the "Ys IV: Dawn of Ys" project, to hack the font and to write the recompression code based on the decompression code he had already uncovered. I knew given his SD3 work that he never got shit for it and I gave that figure not wanting to insult him. He turned me down cause he was busy and later regretted it, but Dave Shadoff came along and in time, together, we were able to hack the font ourselves and he was able to write the recompression code himself. The server space itself here, a friend helped me get it. It itself is a donation, too.

With that said, my point is simply that I think the work in this patch has moved beyond the working-out-of-the-garage level, and given that I've sacrificed an untold amount of time, research, work, etc. for it, I wanted to arrange some kind of way to encourage more donations. The alternative was to simply charge for the patch, but it would've taken a lot longer to get to that point. Radical changes would need to be made; I'd have to set up an automated system to automatically respond to paypal transactions, rather than manually doing it as I do now through email for example. I'd also have to take the time to design a lock/unlock key type of system for anti-theft enforcement, etc. and use something commercially available for exe encryption myself. So, it just wasn't feasible right now because my time was very limited to begin with. Thus, I came up with a compromise, where donators get early access to BETA work and would eventually obtain access to the final copy of the patch before it went public. So I saved a lot of time by going with a "trust-based" system instead, but trust is something very lacking these days as I later found. It was also a way to kill two birds with one stone where it would serve as a closed BETA testing period.

It seems though that certain individuals believe early access to my Felghana patch for $5 is a scam, it's greedy, and so forth, which basically amounts to nothing more than you buying me a beer or two, a whopper meal, etc. in a show of appreciation for work you're enjoying. To them I say, a) go fuck yourself and b) stay the fuck off my site! Now they say this, in part, to justify what they did (which I won't specifically address at this point in time), and to feel guilt-free about it. So, while their claim irritates me that my work isn't even worth $5 (it's a real budget-buster to a butt pirate, I realize) for such a spectacular patch (which will be proven to be true), what also irritates me is a claim that nobody has a right to charge for their labor if they create a fan translation patch to begin with, no matter how much time is spent, no matter how much it has cost them, no matter how advanced it becomes, etc. Apparently, there is some kind of an unwritten rule, no doubt beloved and forwarded by the something-for-nothing-at-all-costs butt pirate variety, that patches of this nature must be free! Surprise surprise. Isn't that their position for pretty much everything that is digital and can be downloaded? It's a sense I get from another individual who indicated that I don't even deserve a dime for my work, all the while boasting of his enjoyment of it. This is a segment of the Ys fanbase, upfront, uncensored, and it is a detestable segment I don't wish to serve. There is no more proper, accurate way to describe what I feel against this segment other than utter, shear, detest. *If* I ignored the rest of you who've shown your support over the years, and I only thought of these bottom-feeders getting to enjoy my work, all the while flipping me the bird, I'd have to quit right now - A thought which has crossed my mind recently in all seriousness.

So, with that background, I thought I'd discuss my tentative future plans. The future will be much, much different; all patches will be radically redesigned to deal with certain issues and specific individuals. Aside from my plans to retire for a bit and return, you can add that much more development time for anything in the future. Things will slow down here a great deal. If I continue with the Ys VI project, it will also go through an early access donation period then go freeware. However, that will be the last freebie. A patch for Ys Origins is a possibility, but it won't be free from the get-go which will be enforced without mercy against those that would try their luck to fuck with it. I gave the "fanbase" freebies for years and years. I gave Ys I Complete, no strings; I gave Ys II Complete, no strings; I gave Ys IV: The Dawn of Ys, no strings; I gave a lot for this fanbase, but I cannot ignore that portion that is there, however small or perhaps the majority, the spoiled juvenile/infantile brat portion, ready to reap all the benefits of my work/dedication, and then simultaneously go so far as to try to intentionally hurt me financially for what I thought was a fairly modest system to generate donations before the official release, something I did to avoid going shareware in the first place. That all went out the window, which unfortunately easily could've been avoided had I spent more development time to secure the patch and easily blacklist those that betrayed my trust.

Anyway, I'll get into specifics after the patch goes public at which point I'll be offering rewards to track down certain individuals.


You break my record, now I break you, like I break your friend!

Offline supergear

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Re:
« Reply #1 on: Feb. 10, 2007, 07:52:00 PM »
I still think you should keep it donations only. screw the public! keep it private.

zaratus

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« Reply #2 on: Feb. 11, 2007, 02:20:12 AM »
Let me guess...  Torrents going around prepatched already?  

Offline memoryjar

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« Reply #3 on: Feb. 11, 2007, 03:23:27 AM »
I think that will make people leak the patch even more. I think what NW is doing right now is great.



Offline NightWolve

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Re:
« Reply #4 on: Feb. 11, 2007, 12:36:39 PM »
Any leak is because I went with a trust-based system. That's over with. To deal with any future leaks, everything will be marked so I'll know exactly who did it and retaliation will be much easier. Patches won't be self-contained either. They'll depend on the server, so I can easily turn patching off for unauthorized users. I said radical changes, and that's what I mean by that. If a whole installation is torrented up and attempted to run on another machine, the result will be the computer being blacklisted from patching anything of mine in the future and a deleted game folder, followed by a reboot. I'll also know who did it from the get-go. Such a system will take a lot of time to design, but you have warez butt pirates to thank for that.


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Offline Speciial T

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« Reply #5 on: Feb. 11, 2007, 03:12:14 PM »
I personally don't have an issue with paying for your patches. You & DeuceBag do a lot of hard work & their is nothing wrong with wanting to be compensated for your contribution to the Ys community. I think your work is quality stuff it's on par with official translations (even better than some official ones). Their are a few things I want to bring up though & get your opinion on.

1. Could you get in any kind of legal trouble from Falcom for charging for the patch?
2. Since you plan on having your patch password encrypted I assume we would get a password upon paypal payment verification, which is fine except I that password would only be usable on one computer, which again is fine, unless you reformat your harddrive. (see example below)

I keep running into a problem with a video game manager called GAME FRONT. I had to pay through paypal, then got a password and which should be usable for life, except every time I reformat my harddrive it won't recognize the same password because it thinks my computer (prior to the reformatting) is a separate computer which is not the case (this makes the original password useless at this point). So I have to email the creator of gamefront every time I need a new password. Now if he dies, stops supporting his software, or just losses his internet connection somehow, I will no longer be able to use his software, and his work will eventually be lost due to me getting a new computer or reformatting again. Also I have a desktop for home use and a laptop for work (but I still play games) I had to registrar his software twice with 2 different passwords.

So I guess what I'm trying to get across is that I think it would be a good Idea (due to pass experience) to somehow avoid the issue list above if at all possible.

3. Do you plan on implementing a similar type of password protection or would yours be different?


Again I love your work and I wouldn't mind paying for it, I just want to make sure I won't have to bother you every six months for a new password. Thanks I look forward to your response.

Offline NightWolve

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« Reply #6 on: Feb. 11, 2007, 06:12:39 PM »
1. At any point, free or not free, I could be sent a cease & desist order. In the cases that I know of, the fan translators that were sent a cease & desist order were still giving the patches out for free. The risk is always there regardless. Whether charging increases the risk, maybe. But I worry more about if you have a US license holder.

2. Actually, I am planning on such a lock-down type of system. If you change computers before you finish your game or reformat and reinstall your Operating System, you would have to contact me again.

If I don't implement such a system, then the patch is subject to easy leaks, easy cracking, easy theft, etc. unfortunately. There isn't any other more secure method I'm afraid. I'm well aware of the problems because at my old job we had that very same kind of key system. You're basically getting a license for one computer at a time. But if you reformat and reinstall, that PC will have a new unique identifier so you will have to contact the source of the key to get another one based on that unique identifier. And yes, if they disappeared some time in the future, you're out of luck.


You break my record, now I break you, like I break your friend!

Offline Speciial T

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« Reply #7 on: Feb. 11, 2007, 07:01:16 PM »
Thanks for the response but do you know of anyway to keep your computers unique identifier the same even after a reformat?

Offline Speciial T

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« Reply #8 on: Feb. 11, 2007, 07:48:16 PM »
 Roll Eyes  Sorry for the double post.

I thought of a way around the whole issue of always having to ask for a new password every time you reformat (kind of). You start off with your original plan of charging people $5 - $15 for the patch and password protect it. Then after an undisclosed amount of time (maybe 1 or 2 years or more) you can convert the patch into freeware. That way no one know when you'll release the free patch and if they want to play it anytime soon then they would need to play it.

The reason I suggest this is because after 2 years or so I don't think you'll be getting any new contributors for the patch. All the people that would be willing to pay for it probably already would have.

Since it's your patch you definitely should do what you think is right but I just wanted to throw some ideas out their.

Offline NightWolve

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« Reply #9 on: Feb. 11, 2007, 08:47:05 PM »
Yeah, that's possible. It can revert back to donations after a certain amount of time or if I was gonna close down this site.


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Offline OmegaRanma

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« Reply #10 on: Feb. 13, 2007, 06:13:16 AM »
Well regardless how things turn out, All of these complications only make things more difficult for everyone.

NightWolve is just trying to do his damnedest to keep everyone happy (excluding the pirates)

While I agree Nightwolve deserves a form of credit for his work and accomplishment as shown with his Ys 1 and 2 Complete and Ys 4 Translations alongside with DeuceBag.

But constant arguments won't accomplish anything but make everyone angry and needless flames and disputes to occur.

Things will work out in the end.

Nightwolve got this far without complications, and he will continue to be successful in the future. I would only hope so.

Offline MonCapitan

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« Reply #11 on: Feb. 16, 2007, 01:13:08 PM »
I would be willing to pay for patches.  There is one issue I have though.  How exactly does shareware work?

Offline NightWolve

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« Reply #12 on: Feb. 16, 2007, 04:33:54 PM »
I'm mainly interested in finishing Felghana at present. I have some ideas, but I have to see if they're feasible/practical to implement which isn't gonna happen anytime soon anyways. What I can tell you for sure right now is I'll be taking a long break, aside from mild maintenance now and then for the site.


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Offline Superlocke

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« Reply #13 on: Feb. 24, 2007, 10:41:21 PM »
man, i just beat inferno mode with your patch (it's helllllll...) and it's worth every penny you charge for your patches.
Suffice to say, disregarding the fact that it's a beta entirely, it was immaculate. When I played through YsF with the story being readable for the first time, i was ecstatic!
I plan on importing Ys VI soon and I'm ready to support you in any of your patching endeavors! I would be willing to pay up to and including 15-20 dollars per patch. With the addition that it must be one of your spectacular works lol

Offline velocitas

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« Reply #14 on: Feb. 28, 2007, 01:51:45 AM »
I understand the frustration caused by the constant whining of folks who simply don't appreciate your work..but to put it bluntly: If you're doing this to make a profit, you need to quite simply stop what you're doing and GET OUT of fan translation. No disrespect meant.