Last Shout - Posted by: Bernie - Sep. 09, 2020, 04:40:16 PM
WTF is up NW?!!!! ;D

Author Topic: OK, this is silly  (Read 6192 times)

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Offline Justus

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OK, this is silly
« on: Feb. 11, 2007, 04:54:47 AM »
Maybe I'm just a giant fucking moron, but why is there no way to make these translations official?

Nightwolve obviously wants compensation and recognition for his hard work.  Falcom surely couldn't MIND having another country to sell in if it doesn't cost them anything.  Getting a publisher and putting disks in a good looking box with a nice manual printed in English would be really sweet, but personally I'd be very happy to pay money just for a patch, and I think a number of other people would be too.

It just seems as if everyone would win.  Has anyone ever tried asking someone at Falcom about this?  They have to be aware that these patches exist...right?

PS - There's a reason I haven't donated yet, NW.  Just wait until after your 12-day countdown  ;)

Offline duke4711

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Re: OK, this is silly
« Reply #1 on: Feb. 11, 2007, 09:14:44 AM »
I have to agree, Nightwolve really should charge for the patches, or at least only give it to those people who donate a certain amount, like maybe $10-$20. I plan to send another donation myself, just as soon as I get some other things taken care of.
I'd also say that Falcom should put Nightwolve and Psycho DeuceBag on their payroll. Ultimately, it's Falcom who is getting all the extra sales because of Nightwolve's hard work.
Great spirits have always received violent opposition from mediocre minds.
-Albert Einstein

Offline NightWolve

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Re: OK, this is silly
« Reply #2 on: Feb. 11, 2007, 11:03:27 AM »
Well, there was this guy Yomarbalthasar that wanted to translate Zwei!! for me a while back. He had made contact with Falcom to seek permission, but he disappeared and I never learned what came of it. His friend died and he got busy or something so it all never panned out. He had said he received positive responses with the idea if I recall correctly. *If* Anyway, it was just about patch distribution, not a full-fledged localization operation of course.

There is though another case in an Asian country where Falcom was not so happy because a company in that country had bought a license to localize the game there and a patch turned up by a fan translator. In that case, the purchaser of the license having legal standing in that country went after the patch creator. But yeah, that was due to not being authorized in the first place, and with a license actually getting sold in that country, patch creators put sales at risk.

I think the license for Ys VI in the case mentioned above went for $100,000 or so. What would it be for Felghana? Obviously out of my price range... Hehe. It sounds a little high, but I based it on a comment by the fan translator who was handed a cease & desist order in the end. Quote, "but japan falcom agent said: they've damaged $100,000 by lost contract becoz of us". Perhaps that contract included licensing and publishing help? I dunno.



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Offline adol1976

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Re: OK, this is silly
« Reply #3 on: Feb. 11, 2007, 02:12:31 PM »
Ok that right about Korea where people like those games.
But comon Falcom is quite "hypocrite" (i don't know exactly the english word for it, but I am quite sure it's near, am I wrong ?)
coz in America or Europe who would buy YS on PC ???
really I love that serie, but how many are we here in France ? in USA ?
FPS rules on PC world.
so yes I am sure NW's patch  contribute of YS serie in our countries. maybe in 3/5 years would Falcom release one game here !
Falcom should read those YS Forums to understand our interest on their games.


Offline Justus

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Re: OK, this is silly
« Reply #4 on: Feb. 11, 2007, 05:58:25 PM »
And yet most of the people I show Ys to often say things like "I didn't know such games could be played on a computer" or even "I would support PC gaming a lot more if they made more games like this".  The fact of the matter is that very nearly 100% of the people I've shown Ys to, Ys 1&2 Eternal, Ys 6, Oath in Felghana, or Origins, have all really REALLY liked it...and I live in middle America for God's sake!

Ask yourself, how many people do you know who consider themselves "console gamers" but who still have a basic machine for browsing the internet and stuff?  The computers these guys have might not be able to run Brothers in Arms, or Unreal Tournament 2007 when it comes out, but most of them can play Ys!  There are a LOT of people like that, and that is EXACTLY the kind of person who would purchase Ys if they only knew about and had a way to purchase it in English easily and for a reasonable sum of money.

A publisher could make such a package even MORE attractive by striking a deal with a third party to throw in a free USB-PSX controller adapter in every box, and REALLY directly appeal to the demographic (many of whom aren't even aware such adapters exist).

I think it could do really well with the right advertising (cheap advertising on the internet even).

EDIT: Back when Felghana came out, I lent my copy to a friend who was in the engineering fraternity at the University of Central Oklahoma, many of whom are understandably avid gamers.  Over the next couple of months, the fever spread like wildfire, and I DON'T mean piracy.  Falcom got at LEAST 30 or 40 new orders from that school, and those are just the ones I know about!  Most of them were honestly surprised that A) fun games could be played on their junky PCs (besides emulators) and B) Japan actually makes cool games for PC too!  The same thing happened later that year when I discovered the Touhou series of shmups.
« Last Edit: Feb. 11, 2007, 06:05:48 PM by Justus »

Offline NightWolve

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Re: OK, this is silly
« Reply #5 on: Feb. 12, 2007, 12:34:29 AM »
I was that console gamer you described with a PC until Tenchi-no-ryu (employee at RPGFan) introduced me to Ys I & II Complete for Windows. I had a bias of course because I owned a TurboDuo with Ys Book I & II which I was very fond of. But yeah, that's how I got into it and what led me down this fan translation path.

Anyway, it's a nice idea, but the money is not there. The talent is there, but the money isn't. If that Yomarbalthasar guy got back to me so I would've at least known exactly what Falcom said to him, it would've been useful. He was seriously in contact with someone there and even met with them during his visit to Japan. I think I remember that from our conversations. But well, that was years ago and now Zwei!! is a dead project, dead idea, much like that Ys IV dubbing project... *hint hint* *wink wink*


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Offline Justus

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Re: OK, this is silly
« Reply #6 on: Feb. 12, 2007, 10:36:40 AM »
much like that Ys IV dubbing project... *hint hint* *wink wink*
Yup, that old idea's pretty dead OR IS IT? *hint hint* *wink wink*

It's a shame about that Zwei! guy.  I don't suppose anyone knows how he started?  I can hardly imagine it was by sending an email to nihon@falcom.co.jp

"Hi, I'd like to order some stuff but if you could also pass this note on to corporate, I'd really appreciate it.  Thanks."

Offline Psycho DeuceBag

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Re: OK, this is silly
« Reply #7 on: Feb. 12, 2007, 11:34:34 AM »
I think nothing sums up my current mood regarding all of this more than these:

 >:( :P :o :-\
Jeff "Call me DeuceBag!" Nussbaum - The greatest criminal in fan translation history! A lying, conniving, thieving, scheming, backstabbing monster of epic proportions!

Offline bishopcruz

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Re: OK, this is silly
« Reply #8 on: Feb. 12, 2007, 01:47:37 PM »
There are things that could be done, I spent a lot of time last year trying to figure out how to make something like this work. I think it could be quite profitable, but the biggest barrier is monetary and contractually. Negotiating contracts in asian countries is notoriously tricky.

Offline NightWolve

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Re: OK, this is silly
« Reply #9 on: Feb. 12, 2007, 03:07:57 PM »
I don't suppose anyone knows how he started?

Well, I was looking at my logs again.

Quote
Sun Feb 01 14:45:48 2004

Yomar Balthasar: (Link: http://www.falcom.co.jp/licence/yamazaki/index.html)http://www.falcom.co.jp/licence/yamazaki/index.html
Yomar Balthasar: That guy is Shinji Yamazaki, the director of Falcom
Yomar Balthasar: I mean just look at the English
Yomar Balthasar: They're definitely not as serious about business as some people think... we might have a chance of getting 'in'
Sef1roth: they use babelfish for their translations
Sef1roth: on their sites and the Engrish they use in their games
Yomar Balthasar: Hehe... but even if you don't take the English itself into consideration...
Yomar Balthasar: I mean the Japanese above it is full with jokes
Yomar Balthasar: These are interesting peeps
Yomar Balthasar: He calls himself the maffia leader of the company
Sef1roth: ic
Yomar Balthasar: Did you read about my idea to get an officially endorsed patch? Would you like such a thing?

.
.
.

Feb 12 13:57:01 2004

Yomarbalthasar: I spoke with Mr. Yamazaki yesterday
Yomarbalthasar: He's the director of Falcom
Yomarbalthasar: You can see a picture of him at (Link: www.galbatron.com)www.galbatron.com
Yomarbalthasar: It was as I expected - he's quiet an open person and he was willing to talk about almost any subject, including patches
Yomarbalthasar: Ofcourse I haven't told him what we're doing
Yomarbalthasar: I've merely tested the waters

.
.
.

Yomarbalthasar: It's too early to draw conclusions yet... I think it would be great if the patch would be officially endorsed by Falcom... but these things take a lot of time in Japan.. the way they do business is very different.
Yomarbalthasar: I'll be visiting them in July - my wife will arrange an appointment with them
Yomarbalthasar: I think drinking some sake with them is imperative to get permission - sounds strange, but that's the way things work there.
Yomarbalthasar: And if we don't get permission - at least we tried and we can do it the usual way
NightWolve: uh
NightWolve: you're like flying over there just for this?
Yomarbalthasar: Haha no - I'll be visiting my family in July - and since I will pass Tokyo anyway...
Yomarbalthasar: Their office is in Tachikawa, which is pretty close
NightWolve: i'm not sure how i feel about getting tied up in a commitment
NightWolve: that was never my intention with any of my projects
Yomarbalthasar: There's no commitment I think
Yomarbalthasar: Here's what I think
Yomarbalthasar: This is not about the money - they sold 2.700.000 copies
Yomarbalthasar: So if they grant permission, it will be because they are doing us a favour
Yomarbalthasar: So the last thing I expect is that he'll say - k let's do it, I expect everything on my desk then and then
Yomarbalthasar: Does that make you feel more comfortable?

Yomarbalthasar: If not state so - I don't want to drag you into things you don't like
Yomarbalthasar: I'm a man and I can take it :)
NightWolve: what exactly are you looking for?
NightWolve: permission to recognize the patch, or localization rights?
Yomarbalthasar: Official endorsement for our patch. Get that patch done when we feel like it - and then maybe sell it in their online shop while taking 50% of the profits - to assure that we're not offering it illegally or something.
Yomarbalthasar: Localization rights no way - we can't pull that off. Too many commitments, too many investments.
Yomarbalthasar: Just permission to distribute that patch - in a way they feel comfortable with.


So... OK, he spoke with Mr. Yamazaki, claimed a meeting would be set up and that he'd be in Japan anyway to do it. After that *poof*, he did a Justus on me... except there were never any sudden returns. :P

EDIT: Hm, that's interesting. I found that translator mentioned in a google article.

https://web.archive.org/web/20100102034116/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galbatron

That's him, Loek van Kooten. It's says (a translator) after his name. That's the dude alright. I looked at some of the emails with him just now in an old Zwei folder I found and there's "Loek van Kooten" in the sender field. He was in some kind of music band all that time... Heh.

EDITx2: Well, this is his last known email: akebono@xs4all.nl

Feel free to ask him about that if interested. I'm not motivated right now to pursue this. It's gonna be a long time for other projects anyway. Plenty of time for this.

EDITx3: This is where he got Yamazaki's email likely.

http://www.falcom.co.jp/licence/lser_e.html

His picture is in that first working link from the IM logs:

http://www.falcom.co.jp/licence/yamazaki/index.html


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Offline Psycho DeuceBag

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Re: OK, this is silly
« Reply #10 on: Feb. 12, 2007, 03:21:02 PM »
Maybe they had him eighty-sixed.
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Offline NightWolve

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Re: OK, this is silly
« Reply #11 on: Feb. 12, 2007, 05:47:21 PM »
He's still alive and he's been doing official game manual translations apparently. I mean, he was running a translation agency when I met him, but I don't remember it being for games/game manuals.

http://www.loekalization.com/contact.html

http://www.loekalization.com/profile.html

There you go Psycho DeuceBag. Have a talk with him. Summon up whatever entrepreneurial spirit you have and get into freelance translating like him. ;) If even Shimarisu can do it, you can! Maybe he'd be interested in hiring you.

EDIT: Ah, here we go. This is his original translation agency site I remember.

http://www.akebono.nl/index2.html


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Offline NightWolve

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Re: OK, this is silly
« Reply #12 on: Feb. 14, 2007, 11:35:03 PM »
Alright, what the hell. I just sent Loek an email. I'm damn curious now too. Did he get to drink SAKE with Mr. Yamazaki or not? That is the question.

Update:
Quote
Quote
> Hey Loek, if you recall, you once worked with me for a time on possibly
> localizing Falcom's Zwei!! PC game.

Yes, I definitely remember that.

P.S. I brought up the subject of legalizing translation patches several times, but Mr. Yamazaki constantly evaded the question. That told me he really felt uncomfortable answering that question.

My guess, and this is a really a guess... is that Falcom doesn't mind translation patches, as long as it doesn't hurt them. As soon as it does hurt them, you might have a big problem. I'm afraid you'll never get official "permission" for patches.

However, they are a pretty open company. For example, they will give anybody permission to use artwork from their website. Also they are very open when it comes to job applications: no previous experience needed. They want passion. If you have no education but plenty of passion, you can work for them. It won't make you rich (they claim they will pay you more than your previous boss, but I really don't believe that), but man, will it be satisfactory :D

Quote
> Anyway, the reason I emailed you is cause I became curious as to whether or not
> you had actually met with Mr. Shinji Yamazaki as you were planning to while
> visiting Japan. I never learned what became of your proposal and your

I've never met him, but my wife (who is Japanese) has spoken with him several times on the phone. Mr. Yamazaki originally comes from the advertising business, and he struck us as a person who definitely knows how to make a 'good' deal for himself. To get a license for a Falcom game, you absolutely have to go through him, as licenses are his favorites and his specialty. He will refuse to state a price though and leave that entirely up to you. You'll also have to chase him a bit to get a reply if you write him e-mails (I'm not really sure whether that's strategy or mere sloppiness).

Anyway, we were negotiating a license for Falcom's Eiyu Densetsu: Sora no Kiseki and Falcom even sent us the original script files so that we could get an idea about the scale of the localization. However, soon it turned out that my Dutch localization partner, http://www.engine-software.nl/, only wanted an English translation of the game and not a Dutch translation, which basically made me a project manager instead of a translator (I really can't translate to English on a professional level). That's where I lost interest in the project; the fact that I really had to chase Mr. Yamazaki plus the fact that I got loaded with other translation work eventually made me decide to give up on Falcom, and I don't think anyone ever really minded (Engine Software and Falcom included). Everybody had other things to do.

Since then I've visited Japan twice, but I've never gone to Falcom's office, as our negotiations had basically ended.

So yes, Falcom is willing to negotiate, but you'll have to be patient and keep trying. Phone calls work best, so make sure you have the call done by someone who can speak Japanese fluently. 

That's basically it ;-) As you can read on the above site, I'm still translating games, but most translations are from English to Dutch. And yes, I still play Falcom games too, Gurumin for the PSP being my latest acquisition.


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