Last Shout - Posted by: Bernie - Sep. 09, 2020, 04:40:16 PM
WTF is up NW?!!!! ;D

Author Topic: Translation?  (Read 22979 times)

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Offline rEd2k

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Translation?
« on: Jan. 23, 2006, 09:24:53 PM »
Yes I know about the VERY primary translation release for the PC version. But what happened here? I know that many really enjoy this game, and I was wondering if anyone is still willing to finish this translation. I have the last release of the previous patch and it was lookin really good.. too bad it died off so fast. And big deal that the PS2 version same out.. I don't think that was a good enough reason to drop such a project -IT'S Ys DAMN IT!!! Everyone loves Ys!! lol ;)

Offline NightWolve

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RE: Translation?
« Reply #1 on: Jan. 23, 2006, 11:07:40 PM »
Uh, well, you know, the reason I made this specific forum is because I am working on it again, otherwise, yeah, there would be no point to having this very forum... ;)

Anyhow, yes, it was killed off way back due to two main factors: One factor was that the Korean hacker who shared his hacking knowledge with me was handed a cease and desist order. He had to get his father's lawyer to deal with the situation as painless as possible.

The other was that we in fact were getting our wish: Konami noticed the Ys series and decided to throw a bone to Ys fans by picking up Ys VI and localizing it for the US. What Psycho DeuceBag and I held in our hands was the power to affect Konami's sales given that many fans would prefer the easy route of pirating the PC version and just applying our potential patch. So, given those two reasons, we dropped the project and moved on. If Konami hadn't bought the rights, we would've continued right on.

Where am I now? Well, given that the US port has sold more than all the likely units it'll sell in N. America, I figure it'd be OK to continue with the project eventually.

So yeah, that's whole story on that.

Oh, if you haven't already seen this, here's a little teaser Gillian made:


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Offline Seldane

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RE: Translation?
« Reply #2 on: Jan. 24, 2006, 07:30:02 AM »
Remember, the PSP version has just been released in Japan. We'll probably see a North American and maybe even a European release fairly soon.
DVDs are for suckers. Illegally pirated and stolen videos all the way. No menus. No "DO NOT PIRATE THIS!" screens. No fuss. Only perfection. I honestly only pirate movies because that "don't pirate this" screen annoys me. :wink:

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Offline Gillian Seed

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RE: Translation?
« Reply #3 on: Jan. 24, 2006, 04:13:09 PM »
Teasing is bad.
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Offline rocket

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RE:  Translation?
« Reply #4 on: Jan. 30, 2006, 10:14:39 AM »
Quote from: Gillian Seed

Teasing is bad.


Tease Tease Tease....  ok so maybe I Teased one too many times... ;)
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RE: Translation?
« Reply #5 on: Feb. 01, 2006, 04:31:27 PM »
I've been playing the PS2 version, and I would have to say that the only reasons it didn't go over very well in North America were:
1) The voice acting SUCKS
2) The CGs are lame

Luckily, I just found out that when you start the game, you can input a cheat that replaces the CG with the original anime, as well as allowing you to have the original Japanese voices, with subtitles when needed.

You have to input these before you start the game, so I've started over and I'll tell you one thing- at least now it FEELS like Y's.


Offline ViperD

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RE: Translation?
« Reply #6 on: Feb. 02, 2006, 03:18:05 AM »
I never thought it didn't feel like Ys with the English voice overs, but then again, I first played Ys games when the TG16 version was brand new.

Offline Slayne

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RE: Translation?
« Reply #7 on: Feb. 04, 2006, 09:24:24 PM »
Be kind of nice to see the game in its original graphics style.  Though I never got around to importing it, end of the year seems like plenty of time to do so.

Offline TDOMMX

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PS2 Napishtim
« Reply #8 on: Feb. 12, 2006, 04:20:05 PM »
Since I played around with the PC version of Napishtim when it came out, I think I'm fairly justified in what I am about to say.

When I first got my hands on Napishtim (PC-J), I was ecstatic.  I enjoyed the idea of merging the gameplay styles from Ys I-II and Ys III (for the record, I loved Wanderers From Ys despite its flaws).  I didn't get very far into it due to my lack of Japanese fluency.

Once Konami announced that they had the rights to distribute Ys worldwide, the little boy inside me started jumping for joy.  My opinion of the game changed constantly as I heard more and more news about he game (redone graphics, replaced soundtrack, new CG cutscenes).  After hearing people argue back and forth, I didn't know what to think anymore, so when I saw a demo disc of the game on eBay, I snatched it up.

The demo disc confirmed most of my fears, but I decided I would get the game anyway.  When I got the final English product, my jaw dropped at how laughably bad everything was presented.  The CG was horrible (I dare you to tell me Olha and Isha look good without lying through your teeth), the 3D models were unimpressive, and the English dubbing was forced and lackluster at best.  Hell, my brother won't even touch the game (and he's one hell of an Ys III fan) simply because they ditched the chibi characters.  The worst part, though, was the character portraits.  Heavily-pixelated, low-resolution artwork for everyone except Crevia.  I was playing on a 52" projection screen at the time, so I could easily notice differences in graphical quality.  The only reason I didn't return the game to the store right then and there (besides it being an Ys game) was the fact that the music was still intact.

Damn, I ranted a lot longer than I had intended.  Well, at least you get the picture.  After investing I'm-not-sure-quite-how-much in Falcom imports, I'm glad to see that this project is going to be completed.
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Offline Kyuuen

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RE: Translation?
« Reply #9 on: Feb. 13, 2006, 01:30:17 PM »
Eh, considering you can change the voice acting (or just disable it) and remove the CG scenes there really isn't much to complain about. The portrait issue was unavoidable... this ALWAYS happens with PC >Console ports so you may as well just deal with that because it wasn't something lazy Konami did; it is just something that had to be done.

I won't even touch the whole "models vs chibi sprites" thing with a ten foot pole... all I'm going to say is I didn't feel as though it mattered. Odds are Konami had to do it anyway, since the PS2 is a very lousy system for 2D games and would have had to have rebuilt the game from the ground up to actually use them without any issues.

I think some people just whine far, far too much... but eh.

Offline TDOMMX

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Heheheh...
« Reply #10 on: Feb. 13, 2006, 06:50:56 PM »
I already know about the cheats to enable anime mode & the Japanese voices.  Hell, I cracked most of the cheat scheme to start making my own codes.  I've succeed to the point that I managed to make a code where I can't even figure out its effects.  I'll post it later if anyone wants to figure it out for me.

I don't quite buy your explanation about the character portraits.  The portraits in the PS2 version are clearly lower-resolution than the PC version.  However, Crevia's portrait is extremely hi-res.  With a little effort, Konami could have made all of the portraits consistently hi-res (like in Atelier Iris or Growlanser).  If they needed higher-res source material, Falcom had it in spades.  If you have the time to create CG cutscenes from scratch, you have the time to write a better image loading routine to accomodate larger images (in fact, Crevia's portraits suggests they already did just that).

The 3D models seem to have been caused by one of two factors:
1) Sony's constant fear / hatred of 2D, or
2) Konami's marketing department thinking that sprites wouldn't sell.

The second possibility seems more likely since Konami was planning to axe the Falcom score and make their own in-house version.  For the most part, I'm just venting because Konami put my expectations through one hell of a roller-coater ride with Napishtim.  At least they're making a formal apology in the form of the PSP version, so I'm not too sour about it.  And, if the PSP version sucks for some reason, I always have my PC version to fall back on (with Night's patch, of course).

If you want to see some major whining, have a look at the people who were waiting on the Megaman X Collection.  They've got much more reason than us to complain.  It seems that Capcom pulled two remixed soundtracks, three completely retranslated scripts, and two redubs, all at the last minute, and re-introduced a number of programming bugs into a completely debugged release candidate (including a control scheme that can easily get you killed)?  In addition, they axed a few things that were in the originals.  Now that's customer service.
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Offline Kyuuen

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RE: Translation?
« Reply #11 on: Feb. 14, 2006, 06:37:32 AM »
Haha... well, that's my point really. It could have been a lot worse. I just hate seeing people complain so much when they could have pulled a Capcom and thankfully didn't. Just imagine if they had gotten their hands on this game.

I'm sure there are ways they could have done plenty of the things better but like I said; to accomodate a 2D port the game would have had to have been remade from scratch. Ever played the Ys Eternal games for the PS2? Yeah... that is what happens when you directly port a 2D PC game to the PS2. Blech.

Offline RyuRanX

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #12 on: Feb. 17, 2006, 04:16:32 PM »
That PS2 version of Ys VI is a shame !!!

Ys is not just a great game. Its a great piece of art also. All the sprites and 2d images was always well done and the anime sequences was perfect.

That replacements with 3D models and CGs are terrible !!! Ys VI for PS2 is not a Ys game for me...
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Offline princeleaf

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #13 on: Feb. 17, 2006, 04:19:15 PM »
I am of the opinion that the 3D models enhance the appearance of the game; because you can only get so much detail from a 2D environment, and I found that Oath in Felghana, at least, has very good 3D.

Now, if you mean the Ys VI for the PC has good models; I'll accept that. I have it, but I've never played it. Woe is me.

Offline rocket

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Re: RE: Translation?
« Reply #14 on: Feb. 18, 2006, 12:46:32 AM »
Haha... well, that's my point really. It could have been a lot worse. I just hate seeing people complain so much when they could have pulled a Capcom and thankfully didn't. Just imagine if they had gotten their hands on this game.

I'm sure there are ways they could have done plenty of the things better but like I said; to accomodate a 2D port the game would have had to have been remade from scratch. Ever played the Ys Eternal games for the PS2? Yeah... that is what happens when you directly port a 2D PC game to the PS2. Blech.


um actually the reason Ys eternal story is a piece of crap is because the people of digicube were slapping it together to prevent there company from going under...  funny enough a while after the release of the game the company went out of business
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Offline Seldane

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #15 on: Feb. 18, 2006, 06:40:11 PM »
This really has nothing to do with anything, but Digicube has released several Ys games (for PC), actually.
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Offline shades_of_blue

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #16 on: Feb. 18, 2006, 11:09:48 PM »
This is awesome, I’m so thrilled to hear that this project has been picked up again. Honestly, I don’t see releasing a translation having much, any negative effect Konami’s sales at this point. Those who wanted to play it so badly either went out right away and purchased it or ‘rented’ it at blockbuster or got it off p2p by now.

Then there are individuals like me who refuse to buy or have anything to do with a shitty stripped down ps2 game. 640x480 interlaced, couldn’t even add progressive scan support for a fast moving action game WTF? I don’t know how anyone can perform a time attack on that version without suffering some form of eye strain or even epilepsy.

BTW Is this going to be a re-translation or a ‘port’ of the Konami script? Or should I not ask... ;) ;)

Offline NightWolve

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #17 on: Feb. 18, 2006, 11:17:30 PM »
BTW Is this going to be a re-translation or a ‘port’ of the Konami script? Or should I not ask... ;) ;)

Well, you're close. As mindnumbingly/excruciatingly boring as it was, I played through my PS2 copy once again, but this time, on my PC through my TV Tuner Card + DScaler via the shitty composite connection. One day, a bright idea occured to me of playing the game on the PC and taking a screenshot for every time a dialogue scene was initiated! I did this for the whole game! So yeah, I have the whole script dumped, most of it anyway, as jpeg images. With that, I'm going string by string and comparing each to Psycho DeuceBag's originally translated script, fixing context or filling in the blanks, and doing my own edit based on one or the other, etc.
 
So basically, you're getting mostly Psycho DeuceBag's work, with Konami's fixes/standards/accuracy. But I'm finding a lot of times I'm just using their lines altogether cause they're just accurate. To balance that tendency of mine out, though, once I finish, I will ask Psycho DeuceBag to review what I did one more time to naturalize it some more and in effect undo any work that I did that would too closely resemble the Konami script.

I attached some example shots.


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Offline shades_of_blue

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #18 on: Feb. 19, 2006, 07:22:55 AM »
Ouch sounds like a painful process, but at the same time it sounds like pretty good idea. From what I played of the PS2 version the script did appear to be very accurate, with no noticeable divergences. Of which I only know this because I can understand enough Japanese to actually follow the game in Jpn-dub mode without their English script. But I only played a little further the first boss before I could no longer look at the motion blur/tearing caused by 30fps and interlacing. So how accurate it stays I honestly can not say.

But I'm surprised that you did not copy the PS2 disc to PC with DVDecryptor and than attempt to dump the script off the ISO directly. Chances are that the script is encrypted, thou… :-\

In any case good luck and as always myself and the rest of us ‘Falcom junkies’ thank you, Psycho DeuceBag and everyone else involved in these projects.  8)

Offline NightWolve

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #19 on: Feb. 19, 2006, 11:43:37 AM »
Well, this is far better though. Cause you have the name of who is saying the line, and the whole context that comes with the imagery, the character, male/female, the point in the game, etc. All that context is afforded with having the image, so it's far better than just a script dump with no references. Playing match up would be more difficult among other things.


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Offline TDOMMX

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Comments
« Reply #20 on: Feb. 19, 2006, 12:32:03 PM »
Actually, that's the way I handled my first SNES translation project.  Since I was a newbie to both SNES programming and Japanese translation, and since I knew the game mechanics inside and out, I took screenshots of every text box and sent them to a translator.  Not only did this save me time and effort (I could finish the game in less than an hour, by the way -- much less time than it would have taken me to develop a script dumper), but it also prevented people from trying to offer me Babelfish excrement in the guise of accurate translations.

I admit, it'll take a while to compare the scripts and make the necessary tweaks, but I think this is the best course of action since it guarantees accuracy while making use of Konami's "official" names.  Not to mention the fact that it is much easier to rephrase a statement if you have two accurate translations to work with.

(On that note, I still think it should be Promarock, not Promalock, but that's a story for another day...  However, I'm positive that Konami used Felgana, not Felghana.  What'll we have to do about that?)
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Offline Arjak

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #21 on: Feb. 19, 2006, 12:38:18 PM »
Promarock is what I prefer. It's what's used in the anime and who knows how many other places. Also, it sounds more like a real place, as in "Promanant Rock," as in a big sea port, which it is.

But, who am I kidding, I don't know much about Japanese yet. Just make sure the little guy with the red hair is named Adol and not some Americanized crap like, oh, I don't know, maybe Aron? :rolleyes:

Offline NightWolve

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #22 on: Feb. 19, 2006, 12:54:14 PM »
We had Promarock once, but Psycho DeuceBag told me to go with Promalock so I had to change it everywhere. I had no resistance to the idea at the time. If Konami used it also, that's even better. Free match up.

About "Felgana." Yeah, I did notice that spelling. I haven't decided what to go with just yet. I'll discuss it with Psycho DeuceBag at some point. I lean towards using "Felghana" because it'll be less work to have to change some of the images with that project. ;)


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Offline Seldane

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #23 on: Feb. 19, 2006, 01:18:26 PM »
Promalock is the official name. Falcom's own name. It has been used in official Ys IV artwork, etc.

Promarock is incorrect and is only used in unofficial translation projects. End of story.
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Offline RyuRanX

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #24 on: Feb. 19, 2006, 01:26:58 PM »
Quote
But I'm surprised that you did not copy the PS2 disc to PC with DVDecryptor and than attempt to dump the script off the ISO directly. Chances are that the script is encrypted, thou… :-\


The PC version of Rockman X7 was translated with this process in a very short time. Actually, they replaced the PC files for the ones on the PS2 DVD and it worked almost flawlessly.
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Offline Seldane

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #25 on: Feb. 19, 2006, 01:31:59 PM »
Quote
But I'm surprised that you did not copy the PS2 disc to PC with DVDecryptor and than attempt to dump the script off the ISO directly. Chances are that the script is encrypted, thou… :-\

Becuase Psycho DeuceBag had already translated the whole* script BEFORE the PS2 version was released.

*Pretty much the whole script. There were some lines untranslated since they had cancelled the project by that time.
DVDs are for suckers. Illegally pirated and stolen videos all the way. No menus. No "DO NOT PIRATE THIS!" screens. No fuss. Only perfection. I honestly only pirate movies because that "don't pirate this" screen annoys me. :wink:

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Offline NightWolve

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #26 on: Feb. 19, 2006, 01:47:12 PM »
Yeah, that's right; Psycho DeuceBag had completed his translation with no connection to Konami's work long before it came to the US. Plus, his work is more natural, while the Konami script is dull, dry/boring, etc. But it has the advantage of having had the context when it was being edited, so using it for comparison against Psycho DeuceBag's work allows me to make many corrections, if not combine ideas of how to say something similar in different ways.

Another thing nobody brought up, if I go too far and use too much of Konami's script, that's not exactly ideal, legally... That's why I want Psycho DeuceBag to do a final edit when I finish so he can restore or improve it, make it more his work, rather than it being a plagiarized work of Konami's. It's not really a good idea that I'm even mentioning this...

But I'm surprised that you did not copy the PS2 disc to PC with DVDecryptor and than attempt to dump the script off the ISO directly. Chances are that the script is encrypted, thou… :-\

Well, the idea isn't even worthy of pursuit at this point, assuming they happened to use similiar script storage mechanisms. I'm doing just fine with the script injection mechanism I wrote, rather than having to rebuild 2,600 separate script files as is how it is stored originally. Plus, as I mentioned, I don't want a plagiarized work when Psycho DeuceBag had finished 99% of it.


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Offline shades_of_blue

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #27 on: Feb. 19, 2006, 04:34:25 PM »
Nightwolve: I was not aware that the script code did not yield enough information to distinguish between character and location. Shows how little I know about 'romhacking'.

Seldene: yes, I’m aware that Psycho DeuceBag translated most of Napishtim before Konami released their PS2 port. I was actually referring to the PS2 script as a companion, thinking that I’d be easier to cut and paste bit by bit, as needed. Instead of compairing a screen capture and retyping lines of script.

Well, the idea isn't even worthy of pursuit at this point, assuming they happened to use similiar script storage mechanisms. I'm doing just fine with the script injection mechanism I wrote, rather than having to rebuild 2,600 separate script files as is how it is stored originally. Plus, as I mentioned, I don't want a plagiarized work when Psycho DeuceBag had finished 99% of it.

Good point, about the plagerism.

on another note, are you going to call him ‘Sir Adol’ like Konami did? I thought it was a pretty good way of handling Olha’s ‘Adol-san’, since ‘Mr Adol’ would have sounded weird. And merely calling him ‘Adol’ with blushing avatars would not convey her respect for our red-haired adventurer.

Offline NightWolve

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #28 on: Feb. 19, 2006, 08:59:53 PM »
Sir Adol is rarely used. Occasionally in Felghana, occasionally here too. Psycho DeuceBag used it where it was appropiate in a few cases is about it. Just using Adol most of the time seems fine in fact.


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Offline shades_of_blue

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #29 on: Feb. 20, 2006, 09:09:16 PM »
True, I did not notice anyone aside from Olha using in honorifics in Napishtim. But I did only play the PS2 version for only a short time.

Also, when a patch is done will it be based off the latest official Falcom update? I seem to recall a problem with the way later update patches worked vs earlier ones. As a result, the Korean fan-translation used an early Falcom update? It’s been sometime, so my mind could use a refresher.  ???

Offline NightWolve

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #30 on: Feb. 20, 2006, 09:11:30 PM »
Yeah, I already set the patchers up to work with the latest patches from Falcom's site. They download the patch and extract it for you. All of that works very nicely since I spent quite a bit of time perfecting that technique. Ys Felghana is just dealing with the ysf_1203_VE.zip patch and it's relatively straight-forward, but Ys VI required an extra step in checking the data.na file to detect if you have the Standard Edition or the Limited Edition. If you have LE, you're patched with Ys6_1108.zip, if not, you have the newer SE, and you're patched with Ys6_1201.zip.


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Offline shades_of_blue

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #31 on: Feb. 20, 2006, 09:16:44 PM »
Beautiful  ;D

Offline adol1976

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #32 on: Feb. 24, 2006, 01:50:10 AM »
Fantastic to have some news about this translation. and factly a new NW board. And seems every one have come again.
Well so the patch is in work, but when will we get the PS2 bonuses in YS 6 PC ??? Lol, just joking....

Offline Haven

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #33 on: Mar. 04, 2006, 12:23:31 PM »
Nightwolve, I'd like to thank you personally for reconsidering to continue this project^^
*reminisces the wait for the Ys Complete patch*
*sighs of joy*

It's not much to do on my part but I'd like to tell everybody that, with my experience with Oath of Felghana:
The Ys series, and all video games in general, seem to be more fun to play when you spent money on it.

*reminisces the $115 thrown away for an YsF LE*

Offline JoeQuaker

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #34 on: Mar. 07, 2006, 05:59:47 PM »
Quote
*reminisces the $115 thrown away for an YsF LE*

A fan and his money are soon parted

*reminisces the $100 thrown away for a Japanese Dreamcast broadband adapter just to play PSO, Quake3, and Bomberman around a year before SEGAnet shutdown*
« Last Edit: Mar. 07, 2006, 06:00:54 PM by JoeQuaker »

Offline DoubleD64

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #35 on: Mar. 09, 2006, 11:47:35 AM »
A fan and his money are soon parted.

not half as bad as a Car Owner & his money are parted unexpectedly. :~(
(Alternator & Battery!)

Thankfully, they just got paid in full!
Rarest game owned: Star Wars Jedi Knight: Mysteries of the Sith
Now Playing: Ys Book I & II (TGCD)
Game Specialty: Castlevania Chronicles

I checked the list: Rubber Tubing, Gas, Saw, Gloves, Cuffs, Razor Wiring, Hatchet, Gladys, ..... and my Mitts.

Offline NightWolve

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #36 on: Mar. 09, 2006, 08:07:23 PM »
not half as bad as a Car Owner & his money are parted unexpectedly. :~(
(Alternator & Battery!)

New windshield + two cartridges of essex urethane to glue it back on was the cause of my parting with $124 USD. Used Windshield: $100 USD; two cartridges of urethane: $24 USD. :( That excludes what can't be measured which is what a pain in the ass it was to remove the old windshield and then to get the frame cleaned up to ensure a good bond with the new one. I'll likely just take it to the auto-glass repair shop next time, rather than going do-it-yourself to save money.


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Offline Jest

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #37 on: Mar. 10, 2006, 02:35:01 AM »
I was kinda wondering how you got a new windshield for that little. Do it yourself. I just can't ever bring myself to do anything auto related myself. I'm not very inclined when it comes to that stuff and I do respect people who are. More power to them.

My gf ended up paying some ridiculous amount because her mom wanted her to get her windshield changed. Insurance doesn't really help because the deductible isn't a whole lot less than the actual cost of it anyways.

Peace Out
Jest

Offline NightWolve

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #38 on: Mar. 10, 2006, 03:15:07 AM »
I've done a few other things like changing the catalytic converter after my car kept failing to pass the emissions test at a local EPA testing facility. The mechanics really were gonna rip you off on a simple job like that. Two different calls to local repair shops and I got like a $100 difference in estimates. I know I got ripped off on replacing the transmission, but oh well.


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Offline adol1976

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Re: Translation?
« Reply #39 on: Mar. 10, 2006, 05:50:31 AM »
Well I don't have any catalytic-what ?...
My 16 years old car is right far from clean....
But I now need to change my brakes... They do an awful sound. quite like a plane flying just over the car...
And talking about money flying : I bought a modchip for my gamecube 26 euros. and and now it's broken... we bought a new gamecube today 99 euros...
and at the end of year we will buy the new nintendo gaming console...
that's great, huh ?
but we only have one life...